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I still can't really . . .
Because the Red Sox . . .
Whereas the Yankees . . .
Yeah, I don't know. I still feel like I shouldn't admit the Red Sox won, like I can still jinx it. I mean, you can do the math and tell yourself it's not as remarkable as it appears. Nobody said it was unheard-of when the Yankees took three in a row from the Red Sox. Why would it be unheard-of for the Red Sox to take three in a row from the Yankees? And then it's Game 7, and that can go either way, right? I mean, it's not like it took divine intervention. It's four games. The Red Sox can win four games from the Yankees, just like the Yankees could have won four from the Red Sox -- and almost did.
It's interesting, too -- if what happened to the Yankees had happened to the Red Sox, you can bet your ass everyone would have talked about how it was the curse, the whammy, classic Red Sox play -- get up three games and then drop four, break the fans on the wheel, utter torment. It's how you know the curse thing is kind of bullshit. I mean, it's not, but it is. It's true that the Red Sox, as I said yesterday, sometimes appear to be intentionally torturing the people who love them the most. But it's also true that everyone sometimes feels tortured by a team. Ask a Vikings fan who watched them in that horrible game last year. You know, that one. The Red Sox have been doing it longer, I think, and perhaps more spectacularly, but they've also turned it into their Thing. It's like Jackie Kennedy and the pillbox hat -- the Red Sox "thing" is being tortured by the Yankees.
Which is why it was so unbelievably awesome to see them take that game. I was at the pub quiz (see pub quiz entry below), which was probably good, because I don't know if I could have taken it, watching that game unfold. They brought in score updates from time to time, and as we learned that the Red Sox were up 2-0, and then 6-0, and then 8-1, it began to occur to me that perhaps, they were going to win.
And then on the way home, I could juuuust barely get the game to come in on AM radio, and it was breaking up the entire time. I was about two miles from my apartment when the Matsui double came, and I was pulling into the lot when Bernie Williams matched it. God. I had been cursing the announcers all the way home for putting the whammy on the game by talking -- in the middle of the SEVENTH, for fuck's sake -- about how the Yankees had lost, the Red Sox had won, how amazing it was. I was like . . . I mean, have these people ever watched baseball before? It was 8-1 at that point. Seven runs. You think the Yankees can't score seven runs in three innings? Are you kidding me? SHUT UP!
To me, the most amazing part was hearing the Yankee fans chanting "Who's your daddy" to Pedro Martinez. When they were down 8-1. I mean . . . yeah, he didn't pitch great. They got a couple of runs off him. But the guy went in up SEVEN RUNS. He pitched on ONE DAY of rest. When your team is down by seven runs, it's a good idea not to be too pleased with yourselves. Because you really do sound like idiots. And they did. I don't blame them for the hate -- Pedro Martinez is as big of a wanker as anybody the Yankees have on their team. (Except for maybe Jeter.) But the Yankees, of all people, should appreciate the fact that you've got to be able to back that shit up, and when your team is right in the middle of showing that they don't, you risk kind of . . . well, like I said, looking like idiots. I'd rather be on the team that has to admit that their dipwad pitcher is off his game than on the team that has just finished dropping three games in a row and it seven runs down in another one, you know? As brainless as "Yankees suck" is, that's about how smart "who's your daddy?" is, when directed at any member of a team that's currently, not to put too fine a point on it, kicking your ass.
I was still sure, listening to those doubles in the seventh, that the Red Sox were going to find a way to give it away. It just seemed . . . my father would have said it was classic. Barely even surprising, really. Just the way it goes with these teams.
And then . . . they didn't. Got out of the seventh, got into the eighth. Scored a run in the eighth. Scored a run in the ninth. Chip, chip, chip. Going into the bottom of the ninth 10-3, I thought, "Is 10-3 enough of a lead to take into the bottom of the ninth?" And then I thought, "Nope." It certainly wasn't enough to make me relax. Especially when Matsui had that fat single.
Shooooooot.
I'm telling you, it's inherited. Even when they got to two outs, I thought, "This is going to be the greatest seven-run come-from-behind two-out rally in baseball history." And then it wasn't. And champagne was popping, and they were talking about the World Series in Boston, and my father is out of town and I CAN'T CALL HIM. And my friend Dan from law school, the only Red Sox fan I know who can possibly match my father for sheer intensity, was traveling, too. I certainly hope he was near a TV. I'm sure he was.
And I kept thinking . . . they won four games in a row from the Yankees. Four games in a row. Yeah, it's not as impossible as it sounds. But find me somebody who thought that was going to happen. I certainly didn't.
I don't know. All I can tell you is that for those of us who have felt like we never got to have any fun because the Yankees hogged it all, it was pretty fun. No pinstripes at the World Series? I can get behind that.
Okay, but...against Pedro is the only time they DID back their shit up last night. He got clipped for two runs. The chant is designed to rattle him, and from where I was sitting, it worked.
We lost. We should have. Justice is served, blah blah superior blah. But strictly speaking, the chant got results.
As for the "never got to have any fun" comment...we haven't taken a ring in four years. We didn't even make the Series in '02. Where's the hate-on for the Marlins?
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at 06:19 AM on 10.21.04
[ link ]The chant is designed to rattle him, but it's also basically gloating. And to me, down seven runs is a weird time for gloating. I mean . . . okay, they're Pedro's daddy. And the Red Sox are Kevin Brown's daddy and Vazquez's daddy, and ultimately, Brown and Vazquez got knocked out of the game, while Pedro gave up three hits but also got them out of an inning that they absolutely had to get out of.
I just see the Pedro chant as an extension of the big "we own you" shit that the Yankees have been pulling for quite some time, and up until that point, it struck me that they had earned it. But once they were so far behind in that game, having dropped three straight, it seemed like it was maybe time to shut up about the owning.
Pedro didn't pitch well, but he pitched as well as he absolutely had to, and he did it on one day's rest. I'm no Pedro fan, but he went in there to get three guys out, and he got three guys out. They were patching together a way out of that game, as they had out of the series, and Pedro did part of it. I don't know who else would have covered that inning, or how that person would have fared.
You have a point about the lack of a ring, but really, not getting a ring just means that one other team got to have more fun than you, and not making the Series means that one other team in the American League got to have more fun than you. I will admit that occasionally, somebody else gets a moment, but within the American League, it has certainly felt for years like everybody else just stands around until they get whapped in the head by the Yankees.
And . . . would that we all could lament that we hadn't won a World Series in four whole years, you know?
I'm happy to hate on the Marlins, but they're not in my league, and I hate them for different reasons, and while they may dominate, they haven't been doing it since the invention of the wheel, so I probably take it somewhat less to heart.
at 06:19 AM on 10.21.04
[ link ]I watched the game with my friend Colleen, a Twins and Red Sox fan, who has been schooling me on the basics of baseball since I got up here. I suppose she's drilled The Curse into me too well, because in the bottom of the ninth, with two outs, we both continued to sit there, expecting the Yankees to still be able to magically come back.
It's not football, but it's sure not as boring as I had thought I was, and I think I may enjoy this baseball thing after all.
at 06:19 AM on 10.21.04
[ link ](The cat stepped on my mouse, so if part of this gets posted twice, my apologies.)
The Yankees don't pull that "we own you" shit. Some of the Stadium fans do.
As to the having of more fun...even if "only" one or two other teams get to have more fun than us, then we are still not by definition having all the fun. I don't recall having much fun during Game 7 of the 2001 Series, or when we got our asses handed to us by an expansion team, but thanks for asking.
Yes, the team has won a lot in recent years, and I understand that that's not something fans of other teams want to revel in. But if everybody else is in fact going to "just stand around" until we beat them, what are the Yankees supposed to do -- let everybody else win so they can feel good about themselves? This isn't an After School Special.
You'll have to remind me when the last time was that the Twins won a World Series. I don't think it was that long ago. It wasn't four years ago, but it wasn't forty, either.
at 06:19 AM on 10.21.04
[ link ]In comparing the Red Sox and the Vikings, I can't remember who said this, but it goes something like "To Red Sox fans, the idea of losing has become expected and romantic, like they love the notion of being the perpetual runners up. Vikings fans, however, always truly believe that THIS is the year they're going to win it all."
I can't speak for Sox fans, but that's definitely the Vikings mentality!
at 06:19 AM on 10.21.04
[ link ]"...you'll need a certain potion first!" (I love the "Into the Woods" reference. "Last Midnight" would have been a great theme song for the bottom of the 9th last night.)
I never thought I'd find myself rooting for an AL team in the World Series, but it looks like this will be the year. I can't get excited about the Astros, who will always be the Wonder Bread team to me (silly uniforms and no personality), or the Cardinals, who I've spent too much time rooting against in the past so cheering for them seems traitorous.
The Red Sox have an interesting history, some darn good players, and it would be cool to see them win.
at 06:19 AM on 10.21.04
[ link ]Try being a Mariners fan ladies. No World Series ever, not four years, not forty. And when you're on the West Coast you have to win the Series for anyone to even notice you exist - exhibit A: The Angels.
Last night: well, Yay! I've seen some choking (see above, also see our fellow AL West sufferers Choakland) but that was spectacular. Yeah, I know Boston is really, really good, but still. Choke.
The phrase "who's your daddy" has always made my skin crawl, even before it became a thing at Yankee Stadium. Ew ew ew.
at 06:19 AM on 10.21.04
[ link ]I'm disappointed that Sars went with "this isn't an After School Special." She should have pointed out instead that MLB doesn't stand for "Montessori League Baseball."
I'm a Yankees fan, but Johnny Damon and Manny and Papi Ortiz are some of my favorite players, so I really couldn't lose last night . . .
at 06:19 AM on 10.21.04
[ link ]I have to say that the Yankees sure have some perverse sway over the minds of us AL fans (Oakland for me). I certaintly was convinced as well at 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th down 7 runs that the Yankees could find a way because, well, they're the Yankees.
The Red Sox played well, even Johnny Damon finally did a couple valuable things, but the Yanks weren't doing themselves any favors. The Sox were great, but the Yankees hardly played to their potential last night.
The thing about the Yankees that sort of renders fans of other teams incapable of sympathizing after Yankee losses is that they've won the World Series 26 times. I think we're on World Series 100 (or is it 101?). So over 25% of the time the Yankees have won it all. The next closest teams are the A's and the Cardinals with 9 apiece. That's a staggering difference. Not to mention the Yanks have been to the championship game 39 times. I admire the dominance. It gets a little old, but it's impressive, yes.
Sars is right. The Yankees don't have to roll over for the rest of our teams. Yankees fans can feel that four dry years is four years too many. I think it's practically an injustice the A's haven't won since 1989.
But the Yankees are special: They've dashed everyone's hopes at one time or another.
at 06:19 AM on 10.21.04
[ link ]I think I'm the only one in the world who, as soon as the Red Sox won Game 4, believed they would win it all. I told my boyfriend, "They're playing for all of the right reasons. The Yankees? Are playing to win because George Steinbrenner sold something to the devil." My boyfriend said, "No one wins four in a row against the Yankees." And then, this.
It's lovely. And beautiful. And historic. It makes me smile, at least temporarily.
at 06:19 AM on 10.21.04
[ link ]Random drop-in from another Mariners fan and TWoP reader... First of all, though the Mariners have not even been to a World Series, ever, we have only been around 27 years, and while this is embarrassing (and painful, this year especially), I don't feel like we're in quite the same boat as the Red Sox fans.
As for the Yankees, it's not that everyone stands around waiting for them to win. They do seem to have a way of getting it done in October, and I was waiting, even with two outs in the bottom of the ninth, for Jeter to somehow break all temporal and MLB rules to get an extra at-bat wherein he'd hit an eight-run homer that would land on Mars. It's just what happens, and I respect them for that, even though I hate them. So in that sense, even when the other teams are playing their hardest, there's that unspoken fear that the Yanks will somehow pull it out.
But the Yankees also have an undeniable advantage that has nothing to do with athleticism or mystique or anything else: they've got Steinbrenner's pocketbook. They have nearly twice the payroll of any other team, and while obviously money isn't always enough to buy championships, it also allows them a lot more freedom to make costly mistakes (Contreras, Weaver) that the other teams don't have the luxury of making. So it's a reason to hate them, because every team that goes up against them is automatically playing with fewer resources--and while that's obviously not against the rules of baseball, it makes for a pretty lopsided competition. Which is why it's so gratifying when the other guys win despite it. (Not that the Red Sox payroll is negligible, or the M's for that matter--still, it's considerably less than the Yankees'.)
Also, while I have met a few reasonable Yankees fans, I will never forget them chanting "Overrated" at the M's 116-win team in 2001. 116 wins. How can you be overrated after proving yourselves for 162 games?
at 06:19 AM on 10.21.04
[ link ]BrynnMcK, actually, I was there when the Yankees took down that 116-win Mariners team and the "overrated" chant was because the Mariners did indeed win 116 games but then couldn't get past the Yankees who finished with a far worse record. When you win 116 games and everyone's talking about you and then you can't even make the World Series, well... it means you weren't as good as everyone thought. Sorta like the Cards this year, I guess.
And as to the debate above between Linda and Sars, I'd have to side with Sars. There's nothing wrong with the "Who's Your Daddy?" chant when you're losing. If they'd remained quiet and bummed out, then they might have been chastised for quitting on their team, right? It was likely the last game of the season, their team was getting their asses kicked, and yet the fans still did their best to get into it, rattle the other pitcher, and do what they could to help their team. I don't think that makes them look stupid; I think it makes them look like fans that are loyal to their team.
at 06:19 AM on 10.21.04
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